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 Betreff des Beitrags: Magnetic clutch OR Visco type?
BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 19. Oktober 2010, 05:05 
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Registriert: Dienstag 29. Januar 2008, 09:49
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Hi all,

My w201 has been running hot lately around 90-100 degrees. Upon replacing all my hoses and thermostat, I am now at around 87 degrees(rainny/cold weather), I have yet to text it at 12nn on a hot day.

Right now, the engine fan is already in a fixed position. I want to return it to visco fan. But upon checking some websites, it comes out that some w201 models use magnetic clutch, and some visco type.

My question is, should the original been a magnetic type, can I replace with visco type without any modifications?


Would a twin aux fan for the w124 fit a w201?


Thanks

Gino

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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 19. Oktober 2010, 05:27 
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Registriert: Montag 9. November 2009, 05:06
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2 aux fans is way to go. Serpentine (single) belt M102's had electromagnetic clutch, when the temp. hits 100, the electromag clutch locks the fan to turn faster. I not sure 124 twin fans will fit W201 but some modifications needed to make it fit.

here's modded twin fans from my 280S:


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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 19. Oktober 2010, 05:58 
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Roldan,

Thanks for the quick reply. My engine doesn't use a serpentine belt. I't's still using traditional fan belts. If this is the case, I am guessing, visco type?

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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 19. Oktober 2010, 10:35 
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Registriert: Montag 14. Januar 2008, 16:32
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AFAIK ... M102 uses an electro-magnetic ....... even the ones with the "traditional" belts ....


2 modes ... on and off ...

off = freewheeling
on = rotates according to engine speed (rpm)

RE: aux fan ... I'd go for the single "big" fan ... (W124) .. the double fans IIRC are for W140 .. (keep in mind that these fans are heavy users of electric current) .. your charging system must be able to cope up with the added current demand should you decide to go double.

my 2 cents ..

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BeitragVerfasst: Mittwoch 20. Oktober 2010, 01:22 
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Registriert: Dienstag 29. Januar 2008, 09:49
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Ah, now i am beggining to understand it a bit more.

So basically, my set up now( engine fan is already fixed), is what the magnetic fan would do. since you said it will rotate with the engine speed.

Is there a way to place a visco type fan?

If not, the only way to solve my heat problem is to replace my existing aux fan with a bigger fan or one with higher speed? From what model can I get this?

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BeitragVerfasst: Mittwoch 20. Oktober 2010, 02:32 
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Registriert: Montag 14. Januar 2008, 16:32
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I would'nt know if its possible to convert it .. (electro-magnetic to visco) ... you may need machine shop work to retro-fit it to the water pump flange .. special adapter maybe?

IIRC .. the W201 has an aux fan very much similar to the W124 .. (bigger motor, longer blades) .. although I am not sure if its wired to function on low and high speed modes .. which is the set-up in a W124 ..

You can also source a W140 tandem fan set-up ... but again as I mentioned earlier .. your charging system must be able to accomodate the added current demand .. And I'm not sure if it will fit in a W201 .. (horizontally) ..

I suggest you have your radiator overhauled (if you have'nt done this yet) .. :idea:

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BeitragVerfasst: Mittwoch 20. Oktober 2010, 05:05 
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Instead of overhauling plastic radiator, consider first the using Citric acid solution or something similar to remove the sediments inside the radiator and the rest of the engine then flushing it after 2-3 days of driving. Then refill with distilled water, not tap water as this will leaves white residue.

electromagnetic clutch is sometimes has issues, when it fails(when it's electrical coil, the engine cannot cool anymore because the fan is free wheeling while visco is more reliable, despite failure, still, can spun fast enough to cool the engine. I not sure some M102 has visco fan but M103s and M104s have visco fans.

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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Magnetic clutch OR Visco type?
BeitragVerfasst: Mittwoch 20. Oktober 2010, 16:19 
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ginomonpon hat geschrieben:
Hi all,

My w201 has been running hot lately around 90-100 degrees. Upon replacing all my hoses and thermostat, I am now at around 87 degrees(rainny/cold weather), I have yet to text it at 12nn on a hot day.

Right now, the engine fan is already in a fixed position. I want to return it to visco fan. But upon checking some websites, it comes out that some w201 models use magnetic clutch, and some visco type.

My question is, should the original been a magnetic type, can I replace with visco type without any modifications?


Would a twin aux fan for the w124 fit a w201?


Thanks

Gino


Gino,

I have been driving My W201 in the desrt of the Middle East, the cold damp weather of UK, the hot weather of California and the hot humid weather of the Philippines.. I always flush the radiator systems once a year.. before I flush the radiator, I will add the additive and drive it for a day or two before flushing the radiator.. and I never have a problem with overheating.. only once when I was stuck in traffic behind a big Victory Lliner bus with the big exhaust directly to my grille.. 8) 8)

I will keep the original design if I were you with your fan belt system.. and as for aux fan, I only have a single 24 inch aux fan and it works for me.. the twin aux fan will not fit the W201 radiator due to the closeness of the grille.. at least in my Benz with in line 6 cylinder engine.. :wink: :wink:

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Kaptaine de Frigette, USN (Ret.)
87' W201 (MerZy) /91
99' R170 (MerZydita) /04
91' R129 (Juliet) /10
89' W124 (Shaina) /11
63' W110 (Frau Ingge) /12


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BeitragVerfasst: Donnerstag 21. Oktober 2010, 01:50 
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I agree with Cmdr. Barook. Keep to the original specs if I were you. MB engines are designed to get hot. 87deg is still normal. If you want to keep it cool, you may want to wire the low speed of your aux fan to your aircon blower so it turns on automatically when you turn on your a/c blower (low speed is originally wired to the high pressure switch on the drier). then the high speed will still be triggered by the temp sensor in the cylinder head. The fixed electro-magnetic fan might add effort to the engine and make it more less efficient.

You may also want to replace your thermostat with a 79deg rating.


Zuletzt geändert von Carlo Maximo Mendoza am Freitag 22. Oktober 2010, 02:10, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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BeitragVerfasst: Donnerstag 21. Oktober 2010, 05:17 
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On the W201 there were older models that had a large aux fan, then on the later models these were updated to accommodate the dual fans.

The viscous fan has two functions, to activate when the oil inside allows it to engage (or the temperature sensor triggers the electro magnetic clutch to engage), and to disengage when cooling is sufficient (from air convection like when driving at high speed, or if the aux fans can do a sufficient job of cooling down the engine).

The W201 with dual fan setup is designed to run with low speed when the AC is turned on and the refrigerant pressure reaches a certain level. The fans are activated by the AC drier switches (temperature or pressure activated). When the engine coolant temp gets high, and depending on the type of temperature sensor that's installed on the engine head, the fans turn on at high speed to rapidly cool the engine down.

This might be the same with the large single fan setup, except there's only one fan.

If your electro magnetic fan clutch is not working properly, check the temperature sensors. These sensors might also be responsible for triggering the aux fans to work, not completely sure on that.

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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 26. Oktober 2010, 02:01 
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Pat,

It was mentioned a couple of messages ago that the Magnetic fan clutch simply just locks the engine fan at high speeds. Unlike the visco fan which actually can speed up to a rapid rate. In my cars case, the engine fan is already permanently locked.

I am likewise thinking that my aux fan may be the culprit. It seems that there is no high speed. The fan installed has a "tall center and is fat, compared to the aux fan of my w124. I am beginning to think that this is not original to my model.

I replaced yesterday my radiator cap to a 210psi, and my cooling improved my cooling by around 6 degrees. Was running aT around 84-85 degrees this morning, with maybe a high of 90, which is a big improvement.

Joey suggested that i engage the aux fan permanently and see if it improves cooling. But i really think the cause of this is a n0 high speed aux fan.

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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 26. Oktober 2010, 02:14 
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Carlo Maximo Mendoza hat geschrieben:
I agree with Cmdr. Barook. Keep to the original specs if I were you. MB engines are designed to get hot. 87deg is still normal. If you want to keep it cool, you may want to wire the low speed of your aux fan to your aircon blower so it turns on automatically when you turn on your a/c blower (low speed is originally wired to the high pressure switch on the drier). then the high speed will still be triggered by the temp sensor in the cylinder head. The fixed electro-magnetic fan might add effort to the engine and make it more less efficient.

You may also want to replace your thermostat with a 79deg rating.



My aux fan turns on automatically when my air-con is activated. Thermostat is 79 degrees. All hoses and plugs are new. Radiator overhauled last year. Flushed(filipino style) thrice in the last month:)

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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 26. Oktober 2010, 03:34 
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aux fan engages with AC... BUT.. do you still have another trigger to enable the fan to turn on at a required temp? if the aux fan turns only at ac operation, this could be a likely contributor to your high temp issues. A thermoswitch should be there to trigger the operation of the aux fan (aside from the ac comp). Otherwise your aux fan will stop when the ac comp stops, and with a high temp, it is always playing catch up trying to bring down the temperature.

Based on your post, you only have a 79 deg thermostat, ac comp operation of aux fan. No mention of thermoswitch triggering an operation of the aux fan when temp reaches 85 deg.

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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 26. Oktober 2010, 04:29 
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the set up for my 200 is like the W124, low and high speed. I used surplus BMW aux fan (from early 90s 3 series), 2 BOSCH 30Amp relays(1 for low speed,1 for high speed) ,a 50C temp. switch from Suzuki carry mini van installed in the cylinder head between #2 and #3 spark plug (Japanese cars had very low temp switches because they have cold weather in the north, which needs heaters), then I used a busted resistor block from 300E for low speed operation; for hi-speed, I used BEHR temp. switch from W123/124 with 100C switch on 80C switch off. At 50C, the low speed is on, when the AC or both, hi-speed is on. I'll post more photos tomorrow.

I used the radiator from later R107 expansion tank from W126 and 140 cap, my 200 can now hardly reach 90C when running, 95 on traffic at high summer noon.


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BeitragVerfasst: Dienstag 26. Oktober 2010, 06:12 
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ginomonpon hat geschrieben:
Pat,

It was mentioned a couple of messages ago that the Magnetic fan clutch simply just locks the engine fan at high speeds. Unlike the visco fan which actually can speed up to a rapid rate. In my cars case, the engine fan is already permanently locked.

I am likewise thinking that my aux fan may be the culprit. It seems that there is no high speed. The fan installed has a "tall center and is fat, compared to the aux fan of my w124. I am beginning to think that this is not original to my model.

I replaced yesterday my radiator cap to a 210psi, and my cooling improved my cooling by around 6 degrees. Was running aT around 84-85 degrees this morning, with maybe a high of 90, which is a big improvement.

Joey suggested that i engage the aux fan permanently and see if it improves cooling. But i really think the cause of this is a n0 high speed aux fan.


What do you mean "unlike the visco fan which actually can speed up to a rapid rate"? The viscous fan is essentially the same as the electro magnetic fan clutch, the only difference is the viscous coupling fluid is the one responsible for engaging the clutch. It has a bi-metallic strip in front that's temperature sensitive. When the strip reaches a certain temp (temp goes up), it bends and allows a pin on the clutch to release, which allows the viscous coupling to engage via the oil inside. When the temperature has been cooled down, the metallic strip unbends and the viscous coupling disengages. This is how it works.

The electro magnetic clutch is the same principle except that it's actuated by an electronic signal via temp sensors. That's why I mentioned to check the sensors earlier because for electro magnetic clutch setup the sensors trigger the main fan clutch and perhaps also the auxiliary fans. The aux fans are triggered by the AC drier switches (temperature and pressure dependent) when the AC is running. When the temp reaches a higher temperature, another switch/sensor is tripped (usually mounted on the head) and triggers the HIGH speed for aux fans. If this high speed function is not working, it could be the relay, or the sensor.

You will NOT want the fans to engage all the time at high speeds. When on the highway, the air passing through the radiator and condenser should be sufficient to cool down the engine. When this happens the sensors (in viscous coupling, the bi-metallic strip - in electromagnetic clutch, a temp sensor) detect this and disengage the fan clutch. The temperature sensors can probably be altered to trigger at certain temperatures.

Depending on the insulation rating on the sensor installed, the aux fans will turn on at high speed at varying temperatures. I believe the stock blue insulated sensor turns on at 105C. Your car running at 90C max is just perfect IMO.

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